I love these aggregated performance comparisons...

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
10/11/2019 at 11:11 • Filed to: None

Love watching technological progress. Always wonder how much is tires.

New GT3RS faster than Carrera GT 918 Spyder.

ZL1 1LE faster than 488GTB & Ford GT.

M5 Comp matches GT4 (insane).

Urus faster than ‘11 GT3RS (nuts).

Miata - still slow. =)

Virginia International Raceway’s 4.1-mile Grand Course has proved itself the ultimate test of modern machinery, a North American Nürburgring. To be quick around VIR, a car has to be nimble enough to negotiate tight hairpins and inspire the confidence to tackle triple-digit esses. Also, horsepower doesn’t hurt .

DISCUSSION (37)

slipperysallylikespenguins > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:25

That still makes me so happy to see the Viper has only dropped to #11, only 1.2 seconds off the F ord GT!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > slipperysallylikespenguins
10/11/2019 at 11:32

The ACR’s a beast.

My M3 is still in fairly good company (3:05 - a few ticks faster with modern rubber ), but crazy how fast cars are getting at the top of this list.

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:41

I love this comparison too. Its great to see how vehicles have progressed and how different types of vehicles stack up. Who would’ve thought he Jetta GLI would be that quick?

CompactLuxuryFan > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:42

Very impressed with the Mercedes this year!

Discerning > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:44

I love these to o. Here are my biggest points of interest:

GT3 RS and ZL1 are much faster than I thought they would be. I wish GM would make a unibody FR car that was Corvette light. Strip down that Camaro and shrink it. Maybe call it Corvette classic (ha).

GT63 is insane for a four door. Basically a GTR but more practical and better looking.

Carrera T... mixed feelings. I sort of thought it would be quicker. The engine is underrated and it’s barely quicker than a c7 Z51. Still an awesome car though.

Urus and cayenne. SUV’s that break the 3 minute barrier? Insanity. Pure excess.

Supra doesn’t break 3 minutes? That’s a genuine surprise. The M2 did it. I wonder what held it back (haven’t seen the video or read an article).

Poor Lexus. I love the look and sound of the RCF but it really needs to step its game up. It’s like they’re stuck in 2011 . I wouldn't be surprised if a 2011 ISF with sticky tires could beat that time.

The NSX really puts things into perspective. It’s a fantastic car from the 90's but so much has changed with tires and whatnot that an affordable luxury sedan keeps up with it.

Miata. I thought it would get closer to the S2000. I hope Mazda makes a more track focused model that reduces body roll and features more serious tires. But I guess that’s what the aftermarket is for.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
10/11/2019 at 11:45

Yeah, it was hustlin’...

Has to hurt for the Cayenne Turbo to beat out the M2 Comp & Supra!

Stelvio hauls as well. The engineers really are seemingly defying the laws of physics with big power and wide, grippy rubber.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:46

While I’ve not raced VIR personally, my understanding from those who have is that it is a very, very HP dependent track (especially the full loop) , which makes this list order about how I would expect it to. In a fendered racecar, I’m told a huge portion of the lap is full throttle (and it begs you take risks because there is so little to hit beyond the pavement) . It’s curious that they would use it to form a list like this, in the sense that HP is basically going to order the list with so few low speed corners. Using a track about 1/3 the length with predominately 2nd and 3rd gear corners and hairpin or two would give a much more representative look at the usable performance of street cars.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > CompactLuxuryFan
10/11/2019 at 11:46

Yeah, that’s crazy quick. POWA!

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:49

New GT3RS faster than Carrera GT.

I think you meant the 918. Same supercar, different generation!

I love that the GT3 RS is still just a six cylinder, normally aspirated engine. Everything else in the top 10 is Super/Turbocharged except the Lambo, which has a V10. Pretty impressive.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Discerning
10/11/2019 at 11:50

Yeah, GT63 is insane. Looking forward to the M8 GC numbers.

Carrera T doesn’t have the better brakes of the S.

Supra is much better suited to the tight stuff. Short wheelbase not great for high speed stability.

Was the NSX ever really fast? Light and nimble, but not a ton of power.

I’m okay with the Miata doing it s thing, but I’d love to see a more performance focused Mazdaspeed version (wishful thinking).

nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:51

My fav category is the “OINK” one.

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 11:58

I’m still a fan of “lighter is better”, but its hard to argue with the results. Although, i do wonder how much faster they would be if they could shave a few hundred pounds out of it.

Nibby > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:01

yeah well i love you

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
10/11/2019 at 12:07

Same here. I still miss my little 2750 lb Mazda 3s hatch.

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:08

I just miss sedan’s being under 4,000 lbs.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:08

It is similar to the ‘Ring in that respect. The high HP beast will always rise to the top. A HP/laptime comparison would be interesting to see.

MT’s BDC lap times at Laguna Seca are a nice comparison, but I can’t find a complete list anywhere.

nermal > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:09

Kinja'd!!!

VIR is run in several different configs, the one pictures is the “Grand Course” used in this comparo.

I’ve personally ridden both the North and South configs, which are basically all of the turns pictured just half at a time. A good laptime @ VIR “G rand C ourse” is primarily determined by how well you do in launching yourself onto three straights, and holding on during two extremely fast “pucker” sections.

T5 / T6 rewards getting on the gas early and cutting the curbs as closely as possible. Easier on a bike than a car.

T7 / T8 / T9 require s bravery because you’re going into it so fast .

T12 is slow speed turn onto a looooong straight. This is where HP makes the most difference and skill or risk tolerance the least.

T22 / T23 is a fast, downhill sweeper. Gotta get this right to carry speed onto the straight.

T24 is a fast, blind kink with a sizable dip in the pavement after it . Gives a queezy weightless feeling at speed.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal
10/11/2019 at 12:13

What I like about all this is that the subjective “confidence-inspiring” is baked into lap times here. If the car is stable and predictable, you feel like you can push it harder and take chances. If not, you don’t.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
10/11/2019 at 12:13

Mine’s 3700. Still heavy, but not a true porker.

Thomas Donohue > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:14

Keep in mind they don’t run the Full Course. They run the Grand Course, which shortens the back straight and adds a pretty slow, twisty ‘infield’ section (turns 14-20)

Still room for the big HP cars to catch up, but not nearly as much as the Full course.

Kinja'd!!!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue
10/11/2019 at 12:15

Yeah, I mis-typed - thanks.

Yes, it’s very impressive!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Nibby
10/11/2019 at 12:15

Aw, back atcha, Nibs.

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:20

That’s not bad. It seems that any midsize sedan under 4k is lightweight these days, especially if its a european brand.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
10/11/2019 at 12:23

Mine’s German, but 11 years old.

But the F80 M3 was a little lighter than mine, and the G80 will be a little lighter still, even though they keep getting bigger.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue
10/11/2019 at 12:30

Says 4.1 in what I copied from their article, so which did they get wrong?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:31

As an aside, I’ve always liked them doing this feature— since they seem to put effort into normalizing results into “like type categories” and at least acknowledge tires’ effects.

It’s fascinating to study the sweep of results they’ve gotten over the years of doing it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/11/2019 at 12:37

That’s what I like the best. Same place, similar conditions, often the same drivers for years. Would be cool if someone could figure out a “rubber multipli er” that would do a passable job of adjusting times for older cars if they were run on modern tires, like adjusting for inflation (pun not intended).

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:40

You had it right....4.1 Grand Course. I was replying to ITA97 who had mentioned the Full course.

(Naming conventions are weird at VIR, as the ‘Full Course’ is not full, and is shorter than the Grand Course.)

See also: Taycan Turbo and Starbucks Grande Cappucino

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/11/2019 at 12:43

Agreed.

Yeah, this is sort of the opposite of The Lap Board on Top Gear— where you’d cringe to see some awesome car post a terrible time with a (W) or (FW) next to it, depending on how crappy the Surrey weather was that day. And how terrible the tires were from the guy that supplied the test example.

Fun to watch, but agonizing for us analytical types.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue
10/11/2019 at 19:02

LOL

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/11/2019 at 19:05

Haha - for sure. I even tried to determine what the time difference was for the section they flattened at the ‘Ring...

Wheelerguy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/13/2019 at 11:03

Ford shocks me the most. Here it is, touted as the Ferrari-beating GTE champ for the road, and yet the cars that it’s often tiered with are much further afield. That’s kind of galling for a halo car.

It wouldn’t even surprise me if the Aventador SVJ is two seconds faster. Fuck, I reckon the 488 Pista , F8 Tributo or SF90 Stradale can blitz the Ford and be fast enough to overtake the 600LT and 991.2RS—even if C/D demands spec Pirellis and non-presser examples.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/14/2019 at 12:52

That C7 Z06 sitting at #12 is going to become an absolute performance bargain with the C8 coming out.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/14/2019 at 12:53

Yessir!

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/15/2019 at 16:37

That C7 Z06 sitting at #12 is going to become an absolute performance bargain

They’re a bit dodgy at the limit but yes they’re very good, and they’re starting to come down in price, although most sellers haven’t admitted it yet.

My P orschephile friend had a really hard time processing the idea that a 997 GT3 couldn’t do the Lightning Lap as fast as a 718 Cayman S. Not even a GTS, just the S. Which, frankly, is incredible to see.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely
10/15/2019 at 16:49

O nce the C8 is everywhere, they’ll drop significantly. And most people won’t get near the limit in them anyhow haha.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/15/2019 at 16:50

Yep next year will be crazy on Corvette prices. But next year they should start talking about the C8 Z06 again and I’ll be VERY interested.